Resetting the 3 crashsensortype airbag

For the technical things.
164 TD
Q4 owner
Posts: 1203
Joined: Fri May 29, 2009 3:13 pm
Location: Honselersdijk

Resetting the 3 crashsensortype airbag

Post by 164 TD » Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:56 pm

If you have a 164 with a 3 crashsensortype airbag, resetting will be a problem.Typical for this type of airbagsystems are the two blue crashsensors under the bonnet.

Image

The Partnumber on these (Siemens) airbagcomputers is 5WK4 164.3.605774380
The airbag can only be readout and resetted with the first series Alfatester and module MA9A.

Until now that was!!!!

Dimtey has written a program that I trailed and errored last month, it was several times rewritten by Dimtey to get it working in a affortable manner for everyone. Although I'm just a user and not a programmer, Dimtey explained it so clearly that I'm sure it can be usefull for everyone with an annoying flashing light..

Tonight, after almost a month of testing, I maneged to get the light out.

I will post details later, but to explain it a little, one needs the testcable as discribed in the item over Unidiag, a laptop, a liveCD with Ubuntu (a Linux version) and a few minutes time.
Image

Location of the testconnector of the airbag is in the connectortray behind the "one screw" panel under the airoutlet. In my case it was already loose and hidden behind the carpet.

Image


The program made by DimTey can be send by mail after sending me a PM.

The following "resetting your airbaglight for dummies" can be used as a guide for resetting the light.

1. Download Linux Live CD (Ubuntu?)ubuntu-9.10-desktop-i386
2. Record it on a CD
3. Copy 164bag program to a USB drive (send me an PM for the program)
4. Boot from the CD (graphical interface should appear in the end).
5. Insert USB drive - Linux should notify you that new device is added.
6. Open the USB drive and copy 164bag to the desktop.
7. Open a terminal (konsole).
8. Use command "cd Desktop" .(Desktop with a capital "D")to go the desktop directory. "ls" should ("ls" is Lima Sierra (small letters.)
show 164bag in the list
9. Run "chmod +x 164bag.dat" to make it executable (spaces after chmod and +x).
10. Connect diagnostic cable.
11. Run command "dmesg" - it should output a lot of stuff, last few
lines should say that FTDI serial device is detected and list its
device name, something like /dev/ttyUSB0
12. Run " sudo ./164bag.dat 0x80 "
This should fail, since you are not connected to
the ECU yet with the message complaining of diag_init() failure
13. Connect the cable to the 3 pin testconnector, turn on the ignition and run the
same command again (use up arrow to move in command history).


To see faultcodes:

sudo ./164bag.dat 0x80

To clear faultcodes:

sudo ./164bag.dat -c 0x80


ID (msg 0 ): B01AIRBAG
ID (msg 2 ): 6057743800
ID (msg 4 ): GF05652178
DTC (msg 8 ): 30 (0x1e)
DTC (msg 8 ): 8 (0x08)
DTC (msg 10 ): 11 (0x0b)
DTC (msg 10 ): 68 (0x44)
DTC (msg 12 ): 12 (0x0c)
DTC (msg 12 ): 68 (0x44)
DTCs received: 3

First 3 lines are ECU IDs. Second line is the Alfa part number, third is probably code revision or serial number.

Trouble codes have 2 bytes: actual code and status. First code (30) is the warning light disconnected. Status of 8 shows that code is not currently active. Second code is the the left sensor, the third - the right.

After sensor/squib harness was connected and codes were reset, the tool reads:

ID (msg 0 ): B01AIRBAG
ID (msg 2 ): 6057743800
ID (msg 4 ): GF05652178
DTCs received: 0
Last edited by 164 TD on Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.
TD en Q4 owner

Image

User avatar
ALFAHEIDA
3.5 V6 12V Savali owner
Posts: 1040
Joined: Wed May 27, 2009 7:33 pm
Location: Alfacity
Contact:

Post by ALFAHEIDA » Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:16 am

Great news!

Look forward to more info.
Alfa 164 QV(S) 12V 3.5 Project '91 /Alfa 164 3.0 12V Automatic '89

164 TD
Q4 owner
Posts: 1203
Joined: Fri May 29, 2009 3:13 pm
Location: Honselersdijk

Post by 164 TD » Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:18 pm

Although Demtey's program isn't as grafical as the Windows based Unidiag program, it sure is a masterpiece of programming and engineering. Written and running under Linux it is able to gain access to the Airbag ECU, reading out its Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTC's) and resetting them.

Image

After running Demtey's program 164bag.dat via port 0x80 (designated airbag ECU's accessport ) the ECU returns with the ECU ID's(msg 0, 2, 4) and it's DTC's (msg 8 )

My flashing light occured after I had the instrumentpanel removed and turned the ignitionkey.
Message 8 contains the fault (30) which is the airbaglight and the status (8= not present anymore). Number of faults DTC's is 1.

The DTC's from the old type Siemens airbags do not show any similarities with other airbag DTC's written under KWP 71/81

Image

After running the command line to clear all fault in the ECU's memory, the light stopped flashing and went out after 2 seconds.

Demtey did an excellent job in reverse engineering the Siemens airbag ECU, Thanks for that!

Arjen
TD en Q4 owner

Image

User avatar
wilco
3.0 V6 24V owner
Posts: 757
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:26 pm

Post by wilco » Wed Jan 27, 2010 12:59 pm

nice one.. if he wrote it in C, it is possible to port it to win32

alfisti-164
Site Admin
Posts: 386
Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 6:12 pm
Location: Arnhem

Post by alfisti-164 » Wed Jan 27, 2010 7:27 pm

I want this on my PDA!
164 24v Super 1994
164 TS Facelift 1993

164 TD
Q4 owner
Posts: 1203
Joined: Fri May 29, 2009 3:13 pm
Location: Honselersdijk

Post by 164 TD » Fri Feb 05, 2010 1:37 pm

Yesterday I resetted the flashing airbaglight of my Q4 as well. First thing I had to do was install those bulbs again, which were removed by the previous owner.
The faultcode given by the ECU was identical to the one on the TD; code 30 which means he didn't see the lightbulbs.The status was identical as well; Fault not present anymore.

After the reset routine the light went off and stayed off.
TD en Q4 owner

Image

User avatar
ALFAHEIDA
3.5 V6 12V Savali owner
Posts: 1040
Joined: Wed May 27, 2009 7:33 pm
Location: Alfacity
Contact:

Post by ALFAHEIDA » Fri Feb 05, 2010 3:35 pm

Although I hate airbag steering wheels, I really think this is great! :wink:
Alfa 164 QV(S) 12V 3.5 Project '91 /Alfa 164 3.0 12V Automatic '89

164 TD
Q4 owner
Posts: 1203
Joined: Fri May 29, 2009 3:13 pm
Location: Honselersdijk

Re: Resetting the 3 crashsensortype airbag

Post by 164 TD » Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:37 pm

Updated 3 crashsensorairbag type reset procedure since I got a lot of emails about it. Update in the first posting.
TD en Q4 owner

Image

User avatar
Tamariini
Posts: 210
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2012 6:54 pm

Re: Resetting the 3 crashsensortype airbag

Post by Tamariini » Sat Feb 11, 2012 4:45 pm

I've been trying to reset my airbag light with no success. I measured the leads of airbag unit, they're ok. 12v is ok on the ecu. connection between ecu and 3-pin testconnector is ok. But i can not get any connection.

I have two different airbag ecu's, i cannot communicate with either one of those. it's not likely that both of them are broken same way?

Software tries to connect for a long time and then announces that there's no connection and something about 5 baud... can't remember correctly.

With same cable setup i can make a connection to ABS and Motronic ecu's so interface should be ok?

What can i do wrong?
--Alfa Romeo Giulia 2.0T 2017--
--Fiat 500 2016--
--Alfa Romeo 75 3.0 V6 Turbo 1988--
--Alfa Romeo 75 3.0 V6 1987--
--Alfa Romeo 75 2.5 V6 24v 1986--
--Alfa Romeo Spider 2.0 TS 1972--
--Alfa Romeo Spider 3.0 12v 1999--
--Maserati 3200 GT 2001--

164 TD
Q4 owner
Posts: 1203
Joined: Fri May 29, 2009 3:13 pm
Location: Honselersdijk

Re: Resetting the 3 crashsensortype airbag

Post by 164 TD » Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:34 pm

Looking at the following screenshot, do you get the FDTI device recognized?
Image
TD en Q4 owner

Image

User avatar
Tamariini
Posts: 210
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2012 6:54 pm

Re: Resetting the 3 crashsensortype airbag

Post by Tamariini » Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:51 pm

Yes, FTDI device is recognized.
--Alfa Romeo Giulia 2.0T 2017--
--Fiat 500 2016--
--Alfa Romeo 75 3.0 V6 Turbo 1988--
--Alfa Romeo 75 3.0 V6 1987--
--Alfa Romeo 75 2.5 V6 24v 1986--
--Alfa Romeo Spider 2.0 TS 1972--
--Alfa Romeo Spider 3.0 12v 1999--
--Maserati 3200 GT 2001--

164 TD
Q4 owner
Posts: 1203
Joined: Fri May 29, 2009 3:13 pm
Location: Honselersdijk

Re: Resetting the 3 crashsensortype airbag

Post by 164 TD » Mon Feb 13, 2012 7:53 pm

Strange, as you can see in the screenshot I had 2 unsuccessfull attempts (and an attempt with a typo) before I got connected.

You already checked for 12V on connector A point 11 (I think) and point 12? Both are pink.

Image
TD en Q4 owner

Image

User avatar
Tamariini
Posts: 210
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2012 6:54 pm

Re: Resetting the 3 crashsensortype airbag

Post by Tamariini » Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:28 pm

164 TD wrote:Strange, as you can see in the screenshot I had 2 unsuccessfull attempts (and an attempt with a typo) before I got connected.

You already checked for 12V on connector A point 11 (I think) and point 12? Both are pink.
yes, supply voltage checked. Both pink ones are ok.

Is there a possibility that i have some different kind of ecu? Or is there only one model been in use?

Is it supposed to work with same pin layout than other modules on 164? Meaning i dont have to modify the 16-pin cable like on "new" cars which have 16-pin diag port?
--Alfa Romeo Giulia 2.0T 2017--
--Fiat 500 2016--
--Alfa Romeo 75 3.0 V6 Turbo 1988--
--Alfa Romeo 75 3.0 V6 1987--
--Alfa Romeo 75 2.5 V6 24v 1986--
--Alfa Romeo Spider 2.0 TS 1972--
--Alfa Romeo Spider 3.0 12v 1999--
--Maserati 3200 GT 2001--

164 TD
Q4 owner
Posts: 1203
Joined: Fri May 29, 2009 3:13 pm
Location: Honselersdijk

Re: Resetting the 3 crashsensortype airbag

Post by 164 TD » Tue Feb 14, 2012 12:05 pm

This should be the number on the Siemens ECU:

5WK4 164.3.605774380

The 3 pin connector should be so pinned that K and L line are interconnected to each other.If you are able to get connection with the Motronic ECU, things should be connected ok.
TD en Q4 owner

Image

User avatar
Tamariini
Posts: 210
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2012 6:54 pm

Re: Resetting the 3 crashsensortype airbag

Post by Tamariini » Wed Feb 15, 2012 6:20 am

164 TD wrote:This should be the number on the Siemens ECU:

5WK4 164.3.605774380
exactly same as mine. I'll keep on trying then :roll:

One could think that ecu is good to communicate because it's ok enough to blink the airbag light :mrgreen: Meaning that it's not totally busted at least.
--Alfa Romeo Giulia 2.0T 2017--
--Fiat 500 2016--
--Alfa Romeo 75 3.0 V6 Turbo 1988--
--Alfa Romeo 75 3.0 V6 1987--
--Alfa Romeo 75 2.5 V6 24v 1986--
--Alfa Romeo Spider 2.0 TS 1972--
--Alfa Romeo Spider 3.0 12v 1999--
--Maserati 3200 GT 2001--

164 TD
Q4 owner
Posts: 1203
Joined: Fri May 29, 2009 3:13 pm
Location: Honselersdijk

Re: Resetting the 3 crashsensortype airbag

Post by 164 TD » Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:36 am

The warninglight always recieves power when the ingitionswitch is on. The ground is provided bij the ECU. There is a logic in there that let the light blink, steady on or extinguish. You would expect that this is a kind of timer module since the light is flashing for a while and then remains steady on in case of a failure or a bad ECU.
Both pink wires deliver 12V.
If both ECU's you have are having the same problem, have another good look at the groundingwires of the ECU (at least one is ok, otherwise the airbaglight wouldn't flash) like connector A point 10(black wire).
TD en Q4 owner

Image

User avatar
Tamariini
Posts: 210
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2012 6:54 pm

Re: Resetting the 3 crashsensortype airbag

Post by Tamariini » Wed Feb 15, 2012 8:23 pm

164 TD wrote:If both ECU's you have are having the same problem, have another good look at the groundingwires of the ECU (at least one is ok, otherwise the airbaglight wouldn't flash) like connector A point 10(black wire).
I double checked wirings, everything seems ok but no connection :(

same message appears over and over again "after 5 baud init failed".
--Alfa Romeo Giulia 2.0T 2017--
--Fiat 500 2016--
--Alfa Romeo 75 3.0 V6 Turbo 1988--
--Alfa Romeo 75 3.0 V6 1987--
--Alfa Romeo 75 2.5 V6 24v 1986--
--Alfa Romeo Spider 2.0 TS 1972--
--Alfa Romeo Spider 3.0 12v 1999--
--Maserati 3200 GT 2001--

User avatar
wilco
3.0 V6 24V owner
Posts: 757
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:26 pm

Re: Resetting the 3 crashsensortype airbag

Post by wilco » Thu Feb 16, 2012 6:25 pm

did you setup the buffer in windows for that com port ? seems to be important with that program, doesn't set it itself.

User avatar
Tamariini
Posts: 210
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2012 6:54 pm

Re: Resetting the 3 crashsensortype airbag

Post by Tamariini » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:45 am

wilco wrote:did you setup the buffer in windows for that com port ? seems to be important with that program, doesn't set it itself.
No, how can i setup buffers in ubuntu? Never done that.
--Alfa Romeo Giulia 2.0T 2017--
--Fiat 500 2016--
--Alfa Romeo 75 3.0 V6 Turbo 1988--
--Alfa Romeo 75 3.0 V6 1987--
--Alfa Romeo 75 2.5 V6 24v 1986--
--Alfa Romeo Spider 2.0 TS 1972--
--Alfa Romeo Spider 3.0 12v 1999--
--Maserati 3200 GT 2001--

User avatar
wilco
3.0 V6 24V owner
Posts: 757
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:26 pm

Re: Resetting the 3 crashsensortype airbag

Post by wilco » Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:34 pm

aaargh.. must have been asleep :shock: its the airbag in ubuntu.. no need for that.. sorry

User avatar
Tamariini
Posts: 210
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2012 6:54 pm

Re: Resetting the 3 crashsensortype airbag

Post by Tamariini » Mon Feb 27, 2012 6:43 pm

Tamariini wrote:
164 TD wrote:If both ECU's you have are having the same problem, have another good look at the groundingwires of the ECU (at least one is ok, otherwise the airbaglight wouldn't flash) like connector A point 10(black wire).
I double checked wirings, everything seems ok but no connection :(

same message appears over and over again "after 5 baud init failed".
This is getting VERY annoying :evil:

I bought third airbag ecu, IN WHICH I CAN NOT CONNECT!

I don't believe all of these ecu's could be broken, i just cannot make the connection apparently :?

with same equipment i'm able to connect on all other ecus so what the heck is airbag ecus problem?!?!?
--Alfa Romeo Giulia 2.0T 2017--
--Fiat 500 2016--
--Alfa Romeo 75 3.0 V6 Turbo 1988--
--Alfa Romeo 75 3.0 V6 1987--
--Alfa Romeo 75 2.5 V6 24v 1986--
--Alfa Romeo Spider 2.0 TS 1972--
--Alfa Romeo Spider 3.0 12v 1999--
--Maserati 3200 GT 2001--

User avatar
Tamariini
Posts: 210
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2012 6:54 pm

Re: Resetting the 3 crashsensortype airbag

Post by Tamariini » Tue Feb 28, 2012 6:51 pm

Three different laptops, three different ecu's, four different cables, four different Ubuntu versions and LOTS of combinations of all these together and FINALLY the airbag light is gone :lol:

I believe the problem was on too old laptop/too old ubuntu (because new versions did not work...) and too old FTDI drivers.

I took new laptop, latest version Ubuntu/FTDI drivers and new cable. Connection established at first try. I thought it was an accident so i had to try several times before i believed it's true :mrgreen:
--Alfa Romeo Giulia 2.0T 2017--
--Fiat 500 2016--
--Alfa Romeo 75 3.0 V6 Turbo 1988--
--Alfa Romeo 75 3.0 V6 1987--
--Alfa Romeo 75 2.5 V6 24v 1986--
--Alfa Romeo Spider 2.0 TS 1972--
--Alfa Romeo Spider 3.0 12v 1999--
--Maserati 3200 GT 2001--

User avatar
wilco
3.0 V6 24V owner
Posts: 757
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:26 pm

Re: Resetting the 3 crashsensortype airbag

Post by wilco » Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:21 pm

nice 1 :D
So soon 2 airbag ecu's on sale on ebay :P

164 TD
Q4 owner
Posts: 1203
Joined: Fri May 29, 2009 3:13 pm
Location: Honselersdijk

Re: Resetting the 3 crashsensortype airbag

Post by 164 TD » Sat Mar 03, 2012 7:45 pm

Good job!

Another happy camper!
TD en Q4 owner

Image

Helli
Posts: 266
Joined: Wed Feb 29, 2012 1:44 pm
Location: Bavaria

Re: Resetting the 3 crashsensortype airbag

Post by Helli » Sun Mar 25, 2012 8:20 pm

You might have seen from my "Project 164 Q4 1994", that I am about to do the same task.
While I am waiting for delivery of the cables I started with "ubuntu"
164 TD wrote: 1. Download Linux Live CD (Ubuntu?)ubuntu-9.10-desktop-i386
2. Record it on a CD
3. Copy 164bag program to a USB drive (send me an PM for the program)
4. Boot from the CD (graphical interface should appear in the end).
5. Insert USB drive - Linux should notify you that new device is added.
6. Open the USB drive and copy 164bag to the desktop.
7. Open a terminal (konsole).
For me this was not so easy as it is described here.
Point 1: was ok (ubuntu is a higher version now)
Point 2: I unzipped the downloaded file and burned all resulting files to the disk.

That was wrong, that disk does neither install nor start ubuntu on a Laptop.
Only the downloaded ISO-file (ubuntu-11.10-desktop-i386.iso) must be burned on disk.
That mistake took me 2 days to find. :oops:

Points 3. and 4.: all ok
Point 5: ubuntu GUID does not notify about the new device.
It just adds a gray Icon to the column of icons on the left side of the screen. In my case it was partly covered by the others. This took me another day to find.

Point 6: normal
Point 7: there was nowhere a "Terminal" to be found.
In the other Forum TD164 explained it a little more detailed:

>>Open a terminal (console);"Applications">"Accessoiries" then select "Terminal" <<
But:....No Applications, no Accessories!

You have to click on the top icon (circle with three points (tooltip shows the name "Dash home"). This opens 6 options, one of the is called "More Apps". Clicking on it brings two sections" Installed" and "Apps available for Download".
You must click on "89 more results (right of the upper designatoir "Installed").
Under those 89 alphabetically listed Apps one finds "Terminal".

This took me another two days to find.

This odysee prompts me to write this posting :D
164 TD wrote: 8. Use command "cd Desktop" .(Desktop with a capital "D")to go the desktop directory. "ls" should ("ls" is Lima Sierra (small letters.)
show 164bag in the list
9. Run "chmod +x 164bag.dat" to make it executable (spaces after chmod and +x).
10. Connect diagnostic cable.
11. Run command "dmesg" - it should output a lot of stuff, last few
I could not yet connect the diagnostic cable, but the rest was as described.

I hope this helps somebody else too.
Helli
3.0 V24 Q4 1994

Post Reply