Alfa 164 3.0 V6 12V QV project

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alfa east
3.0 V6 24V automatic
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Re: Alfa 164 3.0 V6 12V QV project

Post by alfa east » Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:52 am

Wow, I'm so impressed by your work!

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Alfan
Q4 owner
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Re: Alfa 164 3.0 V6 12V QV project

Post by Alfan » Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:27 pm

This is still awesome 8)
1994 Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 Proteo Rosso 550.000km
1989 Lancia Thema 8.32 Verde Indy 270kkm
2001 Alfa Romeo Spider 3.0 24V Blue Lightning 55kkm
2011 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Multiair TCT Bianco Pastello 175kkm
2015 Alfa Romeo 4C Rosso Competizione 90kkm

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killergame
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Re: Alfa 164 3.0 V6 12V QV project

Post by killergame » Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:36 pm

Thanks to both!

I will try to keep you updated little more from now on :)

Valve guides taken out. One broke and I was already scared how I will take it out. But I made it.

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Got new MOOG set boot set for steering

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Valves burned from oil. I needed to take off around 1mm probably.

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Put valves in drill machine and grinding, cleaning and polishing

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And final result! :mrgreen:

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Alfa 164 3.0 V6 12V QV 1988
Alfa 156 1.9 SW JTDm 2005

Alfa 156 1.9 SW JTD 2000 - ex
Alfa 164 2.5 TD 1993 x2 - ex
Alfa 164 2.0 TS 1991&1989 - ex
Alfa Giulietta 2.0 1974 - ex

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killergame
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Re: Alfa 164 3.0 V6 12V QV project

Post by killergame » Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:48 pm

Heads ready for machine shop for resurface, new bronza guides and new seats on valves and heads.

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And finished ports intake and exhaust.

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This was OE. Very bad flow. So o grinded all off and repaired ports.

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Alfa 164 3.0 V6 12V QV 1988
Alfa 156 1.9 SW JTDm 2005

Alfa 156 1.9 SW JTD 2000 - ex
Alfa 164 2.5 TD 1993 x2 - ex
Alfa 164 2.0 TS 1991&1989 - ex
Alfa Giulietta 2.0 1974 - ex

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killergame
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Re: Alfa 164 3.0 V6 12V QV project

Post by killergame » Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:46 pm

So much for my regular update :lol: :roll:


Exhaust flanges for heads and downpipe made by CNC

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Perfect fit!

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Engine bay almost empty.

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Great stuff from previous owner/owners :lol:

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And another one taken out

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More shit from before

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Just some wire to hold in place haha

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Mat outside. Great condition everything below.

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Mat ready for cleaning.

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Future cocpit :D

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Heads back

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3 angles for better air flow

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Well. Italian :lol:

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Ultrasound cleaned

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Second valve cover cleaned

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Also need to buy valve seals and camshaft seals from original CORTECO, because Reinz was shit! Valve seats could be taken off with hand and camshaft seals put in and out of head with hand also. Left reinz, right corteco.

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Reinz/corteco

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Corteco 10.5 mm, Reinz 10.9 mm.
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Also great design! :lol:

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Another view of holes

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Grinded valve seats with paste for even better seal

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Also order digital and analog gauge for engine oil temperature. Probably will take apart ditgial one, change color to green and install only display somewhere. I like analog, but I don't want in somewhere on dashboard.

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Also ordered sandwich plate for sensor.

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Ordered new 6 intake tappets for 50€. Old one had some marks, so let them be new :)

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Finished my device for checking valve springs. For 30 years old almost in great condition. Very little from tolerance few.

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Other 6 valves grinded.

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Found some damage on one intake valve stem. Luckily found new ones, old stock from my supplier for 4.8€ pieced. Just bought all 6 they had haha.

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24V exhaust manifold getting ready for modification. Device for measures being in work with 12V headers.

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Alfa 164 3.0 V6 12V QV 1988
Alfa 156 1.9 SW JTDm 2005

Alfa 156 1.9 SW JTD 2000 - ex
Alfa 164 2.5 TD 1993 x2 - ex
Alfa 164 2.0 TS 1991&1989 - ex
Alfa Giulietta 2.0 1974 - ex

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killergame
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Re: Alfa 164 3.0 V6 12V QV project

Post by killergame » Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:25 pm

One head complete!

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Valve cover will be painted red 8)

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New valves

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Sandwich plate

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12V vs 24V :D

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Well I have found very little seal in distributor unit. Measures 17-28-5. Almost impossible to get anything.

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Also first part of new parts. CV boots outer, inner ordered. Gearbox seals, sets of seals for cylinders rebuild (brake, clutch), brake calipers, handbrake cable, sensors, brake pipes, steering rod end and inner rods, etc.

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Almost like new :D

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And almost dry

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Found new upper engine mount bush from some ATV motorcycle haha. Original is 41x27x10 mm and this new one is 41x28x10 mm. Only 1 mm bigger hole needs to be made in mount.

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Finally took off V6 complete original exhaust I had fitted on my TS. Well after some measuring I found out that it is totally inappropriate for mine engine and bigger headers. Original is first 42mm, then 55 mm and 60 mm at rear.
Since new headers are much bigger and downpipe is 55 mm I will have 55 mm to flex pipes and 2x 55 in middle free flow muffler with one 63.5 mm exit. And then this size will got to rear muffler also free flow and double exit.

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New inox free flow muffler is almost identical dimensions as CAT.

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I also had problem what to do with water radiator. Original is solid, but I went in search for new and for normal price!

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More and more parts :mrgreen:

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And toothed pulley cleaned

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Here it is! :mrgreen:

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Plate and sensor installed

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New bush, perfect fit!

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New radiator :P Got it for only 130€ Nissens

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Found cheap NRF heater. Bought it of course.

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Oil pump gear installed

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And one head on engine

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Decided to paint 164 in red. I was also looking for some good rims to fit for my taste. And found them. Made photoshop with this rims and it is great for me :mrgreen:

8Jx17, ET 35. Tyres will be 225/45/17.

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Alfa 164 3.0 V6 12V QV 1988
Alfa 156 1.9 SW JTDm 2005

Alfa 156 1.9 SW JTD 2000 - ex
Alfa 164 2.5 TD 1993 x2 - ex
Alfa 164 2.0 TS 1991&1989 - ex
Alfa Giulietta 2.0 1974 - ex

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killergame
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Re: Alfa 164 3.0 V6 12V QV project

Post by killergame » Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:45 pm

Rims are home! 2 very good condition and 2 will need a little repair, because smaller 215/45/17 tyres were up. They will be repainted in some silver/gray and polished edge.

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Rear will need some 10 mm distance plates because hits shock absorber

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For me, I thing it will be awesome.

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Front will maybe also need some distance plates

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Original vs new haha

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Bought 3.0 compressor for 20€ for friend :mrgreen:

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Found another great deal in DE. QV shock abrosbers with lowering springs for 60€ :shock: Bought it and organized transport via family. 21.9. I will see that I have bought. As much as I can see they are rust free.

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Another friend gave me K&N sport air filter for 164 :D

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And found complete QV interior door panels/handles in Australia. Pretty good condition. Will need few things done, because RHD. Guy have them for free! I only paid shipping costs. Can't thank him enough for his generosity :D

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Lego :mrgreen:

Generator. New bearings, condenser and voltage regulator.

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Power steering. Only cleaning, maybe also new seals. Not sure yet.

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And engine fan motor. Bearing needs to be replaced. It will be fun.

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Flex pipes 55x200 mm

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Perfect fit :)

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Finally started to assemble other head also

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There was no thread anymore. So bigger hole was made and new thread.

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One valve need to be taken 2g off. New one is to heavy.

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O happy day! :mrgreen: :-({|= Little care needed, but great!

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Finally

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Lower right valve is new. 3g were need to be taken off.

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All exhaust clearances are set. Only intake needs to be done. But I need to take out valves and grind off around 0.5 mm from all 6 intake valves at top of stem :|

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And got new accelerator cable original Alfa 3.0 for only 45€ with shipping from Italy! :D

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And up to date! Today 24V headers were given in modification. In 1-2 weeks I will see result :mrgreen:

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Also bought oil cap :D

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Alfa 164 3.0 V6 12V QV 1988
Alfa 156 1.9 SW JTDm 2005

Alfa 156 1.9 SW JTD 2000 - ex
Alfa 164 2.5 TD 1993 x2 - ex
Alfa 164 2.0 TS 1991&1989 - ex
Alfa Giulietta 2.0 1974 - ex

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alfa east
3.0 V6 24V automatic
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Re: Alfa 164 3.0 V6 12V QV project

Post by alfa east » Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:20 am

Wow, you have sourced quite a bit, Those interior leather QV parts are not easy to find! Good luck with assembly!

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killergame
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Re: Alfa 164 3.0 V6 12V QV project

Post by killergame » Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:46 pm

Thank you. Still got to prepare chassis before assembly.

Well one is finished :mrgreen: Got it for test so all measures are ok, which they are! Second one in works now.

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Alfa 164 3.0 V6 12V QV 1988
Alfa 156 1.9 SW JTDm 2005

Alfa 156 1.9 SW JTD 2000 - ex
Alfa 164 2.5 TD 1993 x2 - ex
Alfa 164 2.0 TS 1991&1989 - ex
Alfa Giulietta 2.0 1974 - ex

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AlfaWhiz
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Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2014 1:15 pm

Re: Alfa 164 3.0 V6 12V QV project

Post by AlfaWhiz » Fri Sep 21, 2018 7:34 am

It sure looks clean! :) Nice work, and thanks for the detailed photo documentation! Good to see such a dedicated rebuild. :)

What did you use to clean the engine block and other aluminum parts? Was it media blasted? It looks brand new, must be very satisfying. :)

MikeCZ
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Re: Alfa 164 3.0 V6 12V QV project

Post by MikeCZ » Tue Sep 25, 2018 12:39 pm

This should be viewable only after 22pm :D Great job :)
Alfa Romeo 164 2.0 V6TB 1995 + Alfa Romeo Giulietta 2.0JTDm 2011
Ex: Honda Civic VIII 1.8 2010, Seat Leon ST FR1.4 TSI 2017, Alfa Romeo 159 2.4 JTDm 2007 berlina, Fiat Stilo 1.4 MW 2007

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killergame
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Re: Alfa 164 3.0 V6 12V QV project

Post by killergame » Fri Sep 28, 2018 11:04 pm

Hehe thanks :mrgreen:

AlfaWhiz I have put a loooot hours in engine block and heads cleaning. I used ARF cleaner with active micrograins and vileda inox spirale for dishes.


So while I am waiting for valve shims to get and finish engine, I went to work on chassis.

Stripped front part. Engine bridge/mount will be taken off and sent to sandblasting. To big to send blast home.

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If shock absorber top mount wouldn't rust, here would be no rust at all.

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Got shipping from Germany. JACKPOT FOUND! I have got this set from photo all for 60€!! :mrgreen: Top condition, almost no rust QV shock absorbers with rear hubs and old ABS rings with bearings.

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And also. I thought some chines blue shit springs. Well at last one I btw checked sign. And then you found out you just got set of -30mm ZENDER springs!!! :o :o

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Alfa 164 3.0 V6 12V QV 1988
Alfa 156 1.9 SW JTDm 2005

Alfa 156 1.9 SW JTD 2000 - ex
Alfa 164 2.5 TD 1993 x2 - ex
Alfa 164 2.0 TS 1991&1989 - ex
Alfa Giulietta 2.0 1974 - ex

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alfa east
3.0 V6 24V automatic
Posts: 1130
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Re: Alfa 164 3.0 V6 12V QV project

Post by alfa east » Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:15 pm

Congratulations on your buy! A great find!

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AlfaWhiz
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Re: Alfa 164 3.0 V6 12V QV project

Post by AlfaWhiz » Mon Oct 01, 2018 12:27 pm

No way! :mrgreen: What a great find! And the price is a joke... :mrgreen: Very lucky you, congrats!

I was not aware about the Zender springs at all... looks very promising, can't wait for the final result. Good to see the work progressing nicely, you're giving a bit of motivation to all of (more lazy) us. :D

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Alfan
Q4 owner
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Re: Alfa 164 3.0 V6 12V QV project

Post by Alfan » Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:55 pm

Great find!

And thanks for sharing all the photos, this is valuable info for Busso V6 enthusiasts :)
1994 Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 Proteo Rosso 550.000km
1989 Lancia Thema 8.32 Verde Indy 270kkm
2001 Alfa Romeo Spider 3.0 24V Blue Lightning 55kkm
2011 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Multiair TCT Bianco Pastello 175kkm
2015 Alfa Romeo 4C Rosso Competizione 90kkm

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killergame
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Re: Alfa 164 3.0 V6 12V QV project

Post by killergame » Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:23 pm

Thank you all. I also had no idea that zender was making springs for 164. So I was like wooou then I saw sign :lol: :mrgreen:

I'm glad that you all like my work on 164 :D I try to share as much info + photos I know about engine and car itself.


Miss suspension :lol:

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A while ago I have ordered set for calipers. Only rubber seals, but I have ordered 54 mm, not 57 mm which I need for big brakes from Q4. So this time I took set with pistons. It was super cheap anyway.

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Got sand for sanding

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Removed seal on joints where I know it could be rust.

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Half finished

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And complete. All rust sanded.

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And painted in 2 component primer.

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And other side also painted

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Got second exhaust manifold finished. Looking great :P

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Also tried and paint one cover in red rosso 130 I have ordered. I will be awesome! Only Alfa Romeo and strips will be grinded.

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Sub frame taken off

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Still pretty rusty, but great condition on all critical places (engine front lower mount and steering rack bolts)

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Went to blasting (I didn't do this home, to big)

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Finished. All parts shot blasted. Tomorrow they are going on powder coating in black.

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And rebuilt generator. New bearings, new regulator and new capacitor.

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Alfa 164 3.0 V6 12V QV 1988
Alfa 156 1.9 SW JTDm 2005

Alfa 156 1.9 SW JTD 2000 - ex
Alfa 164 2.5 TD 1993 x2 - ex
Alfa 164 2.0 TS 1991&1989 - ex
Alfa Giulietta 2.0 1974 - ex

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killergame
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Re: Alfa 164 3.0 V6 12V QV project

Post by killergame » Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:29 am

And already complete! Condition new! :mrgreen:

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Alfa 164 3.0 V6 12V QV 1988
Alfa 156 1.9 SW JTDm 2005

Alfa 156 1.9 SW JTD 2000 - ex
Alfa 164 2.5 TD 1993 x2 - ex
Alfa 164 2.0 TS 1991&1989 - ex
Alfa Giulietta 2.0 1974 - ex

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ALFAHEIDA
3.5 V6 12V Savali owner
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Re: Alfa 164 3.0 V6 12V QV project

Post by ALFAHEIDA » Tue Oct 30, 2018 7:15 pm

Great work!!

:wink:
Alfa 164 QV(S) 12V 3.5 Project '91 /Alfa 164 3.0 12V Automatic '89

164EVER
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Re: Alfa 164 3.0 V6 12V QV project

Post by 164EVER » Thu Nov 22, 2018 9:00 am

:shock: YOU are FORMiDABLE wha a great job I wish you long enjoying pleasure with your beloved 164 :D

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killergame
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Re: Alfa 164 3.0 V6 12V QV project

Post by killergame » Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:40 am

Thank you both. I hope for many many years to enjoy my almost as new 164 QV :D



Flywheel taken to machine shop. 0.4 mm had to be taken off. I know I should take out plugs and take same from outside, but plugs don't want to go out. And I don't want to drill hole in back to "kick" them out. So it will have to be ok. It will start to slip a little bit faster when thinner, but this wont be anytime soon.

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Bolts broken, while tried to take them out

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Bolts, holders, pulleys, etc ready for gold anodizing

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Not even complete list for only around engine and suspension

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4 rear control arms custom made. Only need paint plus middle bushes gold anodizing

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Complete car striped underneath. No surprises with rust. Only few little spots. So great to see that :mrgreen:

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Finally made right thickness sims for intake vales. So all valves are now exhaust 0.229 mm and intake 0.483 mm.

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Working on, but not for long..oil pump shaft broke off.. Somebody before me must have overturned it bad!

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Distributor cap, rotor, new oil pressure sensor

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Thermostat bolts enlarged from M7 to M8 and flatten surface

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Tensioner lower spring fixed

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Current look

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And open bottom again

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To take this fucker out :evil:

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And I fix one, other thing goes to hell :lol: :roll:

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So so many holes in oil pump housing. Very bad casting.

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Heart surgery :mrgreen:

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Even M8 hole still had many holes in thread, but I was able to put normal torque on bolt plus for sure some loctite.

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For shaft drive gear I decided to go with M6 bolt+spring washer+loctite. Plus 9.5 Nm torque.

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Timing belt up

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Stupid thermostat pipes. 3x 28mm plus one side 30 mm. Of course there was nowhere this dimensions to get. So by luck I found silicone 90°C hose 28 mm 2x150mm. Price 5.5€ :lol: It is blue, but fuck it. It is not seen so I don't mind as long as it holds water :mrgreen:

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Cut to right length

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Checking everything

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Modification of thermostat housing to fit thermostat insert, so no need to buy complete ever again.

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A little grinding and it fits.

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Modified vs stock

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Flatten surface again

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Well after check assembly, thermostat was too big (to high) and was blocking flow between heads and water pump, until thermostat opens. So again 2 days of searching in catalogue and checking dimensions to fit. Finally I found right one. THE ONE! :mrgreen: :lol:

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Checked all dimensions for sure, even cook it stock one and new one to check all dimensions, opening and closing. All perfect. If anybody will want to do this also. You need thermostat insert from VERNET, part number TH6581.82J.

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I must have tried this :D Both covers in red plus intake manifold red will be perfect! :D

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Alfa 164 3.0 V6 12V QV 1988
Alfa 156 1.9 SW JTDm 2005

Alfa 156 1.9 SW JTD 2000 - ex
Alfa 164 2.5 TD 1993 x2 - ex
Alfa 164 2.0 TS 1991&1989 - ex
Alfa Giulietta 2.0 1974 - ex

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killergame
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Re: Alfa 164 3.0 V6 12V QV project

Post by killergame » Mon Jan 21, 2019 12:18 am

Thermostat housing modified for new insert

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And installed.

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For long time I didn't know what to do with steering pump. I couldn't find rebuild set of seals. Only some 30-40€ and more, from australia, USA, etc. But I opened it anyway to see, because I have 2. And then I see only 3 seals. Well damn.
So I went to google and just type ZF seal kit, and looked for photos. Then opened links and look for part number, which I check at my supplier then. And BINGO! Mercedes kit had seals that I needed in some bigger set. And price only less 10€ :mrgreen:


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Intake manifold cleaned inside

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Brake calipers cleaned in citric acid and then also sand blasted by me. Not 100% good, but I couldn't do it any better.

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And all in 2K primer.

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Cleaned and put back together steering pump.

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And all parts in Rosso 130 Alfa red.

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Very happy with the result :D Alfa Romeo signs will be polished and silver.

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And chrome pipes cleaned from citric acid. Wanted to polished them also, but no much better result then before. So I put also better set in citric acid to get rid of rust. And then I will choose best 6 from 12.

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Last edited by killergame on Mon Jan 21, 2019 12:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
Alfa 164 3.0 V6 12V QV 1988
Alfa 156 1.9 SW JTDm 2005

Alfa 156 1.9 SW JTD 2000 - ex
Alfa 164 2.5 TD 1993 x2 - ex
Alfa 164 2.0 TS 1991&1989 - ex
Alfa Giulietta 2.0 1974 - ex

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ALFAHEIDA
3.5 V6 12V Savali owner
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Re: Alfa 164 3.0 V6 12V QV project

Post by ALFAHEIDA » Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:14 pm

I looked at the photo from yor new radiator. Is this the right one. I noticed your in and out on both side.
I have one that has the in and out one one side.....
Alfa 164 QV(S) 12V 3.5 Project '91 /Alfa 164 3.0 12V Automatic '89

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killergame
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Re: Alfa 164 3.0 V6 12V QV project

Post by killergame » Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:23 pm

First series had inlet on one side and outlet on other side. From around 92+ Alfa changed circulation of water and also put both inlet and outlet on right side of radiator.
Alfa 164 3.0 V6 12V QV 1988
Alfa 156 1.9 SW JTDm 2005

Alfa 156 1.9 SW JTD 2000 - ex
Alfa 164 2.5 TD 1993 x2 - ex
Alfa 164 2.0 TS 1991&1989 - ex
Alfa Giulietta 2.0 1974 - ex

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killergame
Posts: 123
Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2014 9:29 pm
Location: Slovenia
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Re: Alfa 164 3.0 V6 12V QV project

Post by killergame » Tue Jan 22, 2019 12:11 am

Started rebuilding AC compressor. I got seal kit for it. Now I need to find also coil and bearing. Clutch is ok! :D

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First cover. I am very satisfied with final result.

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Front brake calipers also finished with painting.

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It won't be hard to get used to this view :mrgreen: 8)

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Alfa 164 3.0 V6 12V QV 1988
Alfa 156 1.9 SW JTDm 2005

Alfa 156 1.9 SW JTD 2000 - ex
Alfa 164 2.5 TD 1993 x2 - ex
Alfa 164 2.0 TS 1991&1989 - ex
Alfa Giulietta 2.0 1974 - ex

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killergame
Posts: 123
Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2014 9:29 pm
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Re: Alfa 164 3.0 V6 12V QV project

Post by killergame » Sun Feb 17, 2019 11:39 pm

Got new oil caps for very cheap. Not 100% fit, because smaller lock mechanism, but for that money, it will be just ok :D

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Finished assambling brake calipers.

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Another set of chrome pipes cleaned. I will polish all 12 and then use the best 6.

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Pully from AC compressor removed

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Nisem še sicer razdro komplet, ampak imam namen in obenem seveda menjat vsa tesnila.

I didn't post a photo of a finished floor mat. Friend really made it like new! :mrgreen:

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Engine bay waiting for warmer weather and for me to decide which red color I will choose. Probably won't be rosso 130..

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Meanwhile replaced bearing from engine water cooler fan motor

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Also finally found rear bushes for arms! :D

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Sandblasting parts for the second round of powder coating and gold anodizing.

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I have a problem with replacing the middle shaft bearing and paint it. It has some stupid security ring or something pushed on very hard. Will probably need to cut both off

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Ordered new parts also. Oil sensor for the gauge, SKF front bearings, plus decided to buy powerflex for the front antiroll bar.

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Alfa 164 3.0 V6 12V QV 1988
Alfa 156 1.9 SW JTDm 2005

Alfa 156 1.9 SW JTD 2000 - ex
Alfa 164 2.5 TD 1993 x2 - ex
Alfa 164 2.0 TS 1991&1989 - ex
Alfa Giulietta 2.0 1974 - ex

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